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Post by glasschmetterling on Aug 1, 2016 9:51:57 GMT
I might be reading the wrong stories right now, but the male love interest beating another guy into a bloody pulp because said other guy did something to the female main character? Not manly. And not sexy. Not sexy at all. More like frightening as hell. I want to be comforted after I've been hurt. What I really don't want is having to worry that my significant other might get into trouble with the police because he just assaulted someone. I never got why that happens so often in books, either, but maybe the writer's trying to show how much the male lead loves his girlfriend? Or they're trying to tell their readers that doing asshole things like that will get them trouble? I don't know, but I'd be lying if I said I never used the trope. The only difference is, while they do confront the guy, they're never the ones who throw the first punch, and they still do what they can to not actually hurt the jerk. It doesn't make them much better, but at least they're not going in with intent to harm like a lot of "love interests" seem to be doing now. I guess you're right, and also, that they're trying to show how strong and manly and attractive they are. Only that it doesn't work for me, at all. I think we're pretty much on the same page where things you can do and things you can't do are concerned. In my book, there's nothing wrong with going out and telling a jerk that they should better leave someone you love alone, because that person you love is intimidated or frightened by said jerk. I'd do that too. In fact, a friend of mine did that twice in the last couple of weeks, once for her friend and once for her mother. There's also nothing wrong with defending yourself, or defending someone you love, or defending someone who just plain needs defending at that moment. But taking a friend, going out of your way to facilitate a meeting with said jerk, then threatening and hitting him, and not even showing the tiniest hint of remorse about it later? That's about as scary as it gets. That goes beyond "Bad Boy" and crosses into "Real Piece of Work I wouldn't even touch with a ten-feet pole if he were the last man on Earth"-territory really quickly. It's also a real good way of getting other women and children (and animals!) into all kinds of trouble, because people who get picked on that way (no matter how deserved it is from an outsider's point of view) often take away the message that "Might Makes Right", and they take out their aggressions on those weaker than they are later, just because they can and they've seen other people do it to them all the time. Edit: And another pet peeve... why do all those guys keep their condoms in their wallets? Every time I see that one, I see STDs and babies in the future, because heat and friction are very good ways to damage a condom. Sex Ed Class Fail much?
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Post by muskratthemink on Aug 1, 2016 15:08:02 GMT
I never got why that happens so often in books, either, but maybe the writer's trying to show how much the male lead loves his girlfriend? Or they're trying to tell their readers that doing asshole things like that will get them trouble? I don't know, but I'd be lying if I said I never used the trope. The only difference is, while they do confront the guy, they're never the ones who throw the first punch, and they still do what they can to not actually hurt the jerk. It doesn't make them much better, but at least they're not going in with intent to harm like a lot of "love interests" seem to be doing now. I guess you're right, and also, that they're trying to show how strong and manly and attractive they are. Only that it doesn't work for me, at all. I think we're pretty much on the same page where things you can do and things you can't do are concerned. In my book, there's nothing wrong with going out and telling a jerk that they should better leave someone you love alone, because that person you love is intimidated or frightened by said jerk. I'd do that too. In fact, a friend of mine did that twice in the last couple of weeks, once for her friend and once for her mother. There's also nothing wrong with defending yourself, or defending someone you love, or defending someone who just plain needs defending at that moment. But taking a friend, going out of your way to facilitate a meeting with said jerk, then threatening and hitting him, and not even showing the tiniest hint of remorse about it later? That's about as scary as it gets. That goes beyond "Bad Boy" and crosses into "Real Piece of Work I wouldn't even touch with a ten-feet pole if he were the last man on Earth"-territory really quickly. It's also a real good way of getting other women and children (and animals!) into all kinds of trouble, because people who get picked on that way (no matter how deserved it is from an outsider's point of view) often take away the message that "Might Makes Right", and they take out their aggressions on those weaker than they are later, just because they can and they've seen other people do it to them all the time. Edit: And another pet peeve... why do all those guys keep their condoms in their wallets? Every time I see that one, I see STDs and babies in the future, because heat and friction are very good ways to damage a condom. Sex Ed Class Fail much? They called it "Health Class" at my schools, and they never went beyond how things change. Hell, they barely did that much... What really scares me is how quickly things like that, and even worse, are becoming the norm. I don't plan on having kids, but if I did, I sure wouldn't want them reading bullcrap like that. People like that shouldn't be admired in any way, but they're being touted as the ultimate catch in pretty much every runaway hit now. No! No, no, no! Aggression like that is a red flag, not a hallmark!
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Post by glasschmetterling on Aug 1, 2016 19:57:57 GMT
They called it "Health Class" at my schools, and they never went beyond how things change. Hell, they barely did that much... What really scares me is how quickly things like that, and even worse, are becoming the norm. I don't plan on having kids, but if I did, I sure wouldn't want them reading bullcrap like that. People like that shouldn't be admired in any way, but they're being touted as the ultimate catch in pretty much every runaway hit now. No! No, no, no! Aggression like that is a red flag, not a hallmark! Ouch. That sucks. Especially as sex ed is so damned important and one of the things most pupils will eventually need in their lives (and, well... if you've been told that you need to use a condom until your ears bleed and then read about it in about a gazillion romance novels, chances that you'll actually use one go up dramatically!). Important note though: "I trust you!" is not equivalent to "We don't need a condom!" (yeah... I read that one!). Because if there was a fund that got a dollar every time someone on this planet trusts someone when it's in fact a stupid idea, we couldn't only feed the whole world, we could go out and buy world peace. I'm an eternal optimist, though. I don't think things like that are becoming the norm - I think they used to be, and I think it's changing, but it's not changing as quickly as it should, and a lot of people still don't recognize what's wrong with it. But the girls I work with... I sure as hell hope they won't read stuff like that, and that if they want to read romance and/or erotica, they'll find something decent, something that's not stupid and sexist and portrays abusive relationships as something we should aspire to. I haven't seen any of them run around with Fifty Shades, so there's hope yet!
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Post by muskratthemink on Aug 1, 2016 22:35:11 GMT
They called it "Health Class" at my schools, and they never went beyond how things change. Hell, they barely did that much... What really scares me is how quickly things like that, and even worse, are becoming the norm. I don't plan on having kids, but if I did, I sure wouldn't want them reading bullcrap like that. People like that shouldn't be admired in any way, but they're being touted as the ultimate catch in pretty much every runaway hit now. No! No, no, no! Aggression like that is a red flag, not a hallmark! Ouch. That sucks. Especially as sex ed is so damned important and one of the things most pupils will eventually need in their lives (and, well... if you've been told that you need to use a condom until your ears bleed and then read about it in about a gazillion romance novels, chances that you'll actually use one go up dramatically!). Important note though: "I trust you!" is not equivalent to "We don't need a condom!" (yeah... I read that one!). Because if there was a fund that got a dollar every time someone on this planet trusts someone when it's in fact a stupid idea, we couldn't only feed the whole world, we could go out and buy world peace. I'm an eternal optimist, though. I don't think things like that are becoming the norm - I think they used to be, and I think it's changing, but it's not changing as quickly as it should, and a lot of people still don't recognize what's wrong with it. But the girls I work with... I sure as hell hope they won't read stuff like that, and that if they want to read romance and/or erotica, they'll find something decent, something that's not stupid and sexist and portrays abusive relationships as something we should aspire to. I haven't seen any of them run around with Fifty Shades, so there's hope yet! I haven't written about any of my couples using one, mainly because I'm still super uncomfortable with the whole "sex" thing and words relating to it. It doesn't seem to show when I write scenes like that, though, at least from the reviews I've read of my fanfics... True, but a lot of characters in romance novels don't seem to be known for their brains, if recent hits are anything to go by. And now I'm wishing we did have a fund like that, because at least then stupidity would have a purpose. I've seen Fifty Shades and Grey in the romance sections of several stores that sell books, and every time I literally gag, the first time I even thought I was gonna puke. I just don't get how so many people can look past all the shit he pulls just because he's rich, I've even heard fans say they wouldn't like the books if he weren't. Why is that the deciding factor and not his stalking, threats or anything else? It makes no freaking sense!
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Post by DraconRa on Aug 2, 2016 10:35:14 GMT
I always make sure to have a healthy relationship, one that I would want. I'm back to writing shapeshifting dragons, such an opportunity for alpha-male crap.... but since it's my story, the love interest is never scared, he knows he can trust his partner never to hurt those dear to him. I really don't get the appeal of someone you need to be afraid of, neither in stories nor in real life...
The condom part, so much this... I mean, I only have one story in a setting where condoms make sense, that is neither fantasy or science fiction, and I make sure to have the new couple use condoms. Mostly because for me it's the normal thing to do, it's what I do... And since she is the one initiating it, she's got the condoms in her backpack, and a later scene, runs up to her bedroom to get them for hot sex on the couch ;-)
I would never write a story, set here and now, where this is not a thing. Except maybe the story with the lesbian couple, but even there something like a dental dam could be used, should I ever come around to write sex scenes for them.
And after writing this, I remember the next pet peeve, women should be conquered, and don't go and chase the guy. *yawn* That probably ties into the: "she's scared at the beginning"- trope, no self-respecting woman would just want a guy on her own, right? *barf* Yes, I write mostly gay couples, but when I do write het romance, she's the one out to get him ;-)
Another, unrelated thing, that annoys me, I write every English post in word, for spell check (browser is set for German) and then just copy + paste. But every time I do it here, I need to edit the format after posting, forum messes with it every f*cking time.
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Post by muskratthemink on Aug 2, 2016 11:29:43 GMT
I always make sure to have a healthy relationship, one that I would want. I'm back to writing shapeshifting dragons, such an opportunity for alpha-male crap.... but since it's my story, the love interest is never scared, he knows he can trust his partner never to hurt those dear to him. I really don't get the appeal of someone you need to be afraid of, neither in stories nor in real life... The condom part, so much this... I mean, I only have one story in a setting where condoms make sense, that is neither fantasy or science fiction, and I make sure to have the new couple use condoms. Mostly because for me it's the normal thing to do, it's what I do... And since she is the one initiating it, she's got the condoms in her backpack, and a later scene, runs up to her bedroom to get them for hot sex on the couch ;-) I would never write a story, set here and now, where this is not a thing. Except maybe the story with the lesbian couple, but even there something like a dental dam could be used, should I ever come around to write sex scenes for them. And after writing this, I remember the next pet peeve, women should be conquered, and don't go and chase the guy. *yawn* That probably ties into the: "she's scared at the beginning"- trope, no self-respecting woman would just want a guy on her own, right? *barf* Yes, I write mostly gay couples, but when I do write het romance, she's the one out to get him ;-) Another, unrelated thing, that annoys me, I write every English post in word, for spell check (browser is set for German) and then just copy + paste. But every time I do it here, I need to edit the format after posting, forum messes with it every f*cking time. Same here. They've always got problems, sure, but normal stuff, none of that crazy shit. There are men in my family that I'm afraid of instinctually, even if they never actually did anything to anyone. It's not a nice feeling, so I don't get why anyone would go out looking for a partner that made them feel that way... I actually assume my characters use them, I just don't explicitly state it. I might one day, but that's a while off. That reminds me of the first sex scene in Backstabber. Jason's worried Lena will be scared because of something that happened earlier, until she literally pulls him down and says, "Just shut up and screw me already."; I actually laugh a bit whenever I imagine the shocked look on his face. Ugh, yeah, Word is known for not playing nice when it comes to formats with other programs, but spell check is one thing it does well. It's a feature Scivener kind of needs to work on...
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xebi
Full Member
Posts: 144
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Post by xebi on Aug 4, 2016 18:55:07 GMT
you need to use a condom until your ears bleed I just read this phrase completely out of context
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Post by DraconRa on Aug 5, 2016 23:48:31 GMT
I always make sure to have a healthy relationship, one that I would want. I'm back to writing shapeshifting dragons, such an opportunity for alpha-male crap.... but since it's my story, the love interest is never scared, he knows he can trust his partner never to hurt those dear to him. I really don't get the appeal of someone you need to be afraid of, neither in stories nor in real life... The condom part, so much this... I mean, I only have one story in a setting where condoms make sense, that is neither fantasy or science fiction, and I make sure to have the new couple use condoms. Mostly because for me it's the normal thing to do, it's what I do... And since she is the one initiating it, she's got the condoms in her backpack, and a later scene, runs up to her bedroom to get them for hot sex on the couch ;-) I would never write a story, set here and now, where this is not a thing. Except maybe the story with the lesbian couple, but even there something like a dental dam could be used, should I ever come around to write sex scenes for them. And after writing this, I remember the next pet peeve, women should be conquered, and don't go and chase the guy. *yawn* That probably ties into the: "she's scared at the beginning"- trope, no self-respecting woman would just want a guy on her own, right? *barf* Yes, I write mostly gay couples, but when I do write het romance, she's the one out to get him ;-) Another, unrelated thing, that annoys me, I write every English post in word, for spell check (browser is set for German) and then just copy + paste. But every time I do it here, I need to edit the format after posting, forum messes with it every f*cking time. Same here. They've always got problems, sure, but normal stuff, none of that crazy shit. There are men in my family that I'm afraid of instinctually, even if they never actually did anything to anyone. It's not a nice feeling, so I don't get why anyone would go out looking for a partner that made them feel that way... I actually assume my characters use them, I just don't explicitly state it. I might one day, but that's a while off. That reminds me of the first sex scene in Backstabber. Jason's worried Lena will be scared because of something that happened earlier, until she literally pulls him down and says, "Just shut up and screw me already."; I actually laugh a bit whenever I imagine the shocked look on his face. Ugh, yeah, Word is known for not playing nice when it comes to formats with other programs, but spell check is one thing it does well. It's a feature Scivener kind of needs to work on... Yes, everyone has problems, without them there wouldn't be much of a story. And with super natural lovers, angst can be a theme, but in my writing, it's solely the dragon hybrid who is afraid of his lovers reaction. Out of bad experiences in the past. Or in my "Fifty Shades, bah I can do better"- Mechanics Lovestory, he's worried about her reaction to him being a masochist in a happy poly-family. But she chases him and they use words to solve their problems ;-) Yes, Spellcheck is great, I love word for this. And I like the cloud, makes sharing stuff with my alpha-reader easier. xebi Family Guy?
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Post by muskratthemink on Aug 6, 2016 2:18:48 GMT
Same here. They've always got problems, sure, but normal stuff, none of that crazy shit. There are men in my family that I'm afraid of instinctually, even if they never actually did anything to anyone. It's not a nice feeling, so I don't get why anyone would go out looking for a partner that made them feel that way... I actually assume my characters use them, I just don't explicitly state it. I might one day, but that's a while off. That reminds me of the first sex scene in Backstabber. Jason's worried Lena will be scared because of something that happened earlier, until she literally pulls him down and says, "Just shut up and screw me already."; I actually laugh a bit whenever I imagine the shocked look on his face. Ugh, yeah, Word is known for not playing nice when it comes to formats with other programs, but spell check is one thing it does well. It's a feature Scivener kind of needs to work on... Yes, everyone has problems, without them there wouldn't be much of a story. And with super natural lovers, angst can be a theme, but in my writing, it's solely the dragon hybrid who is afraid of his lovers reaction. Out of bad experiences in the past. Or in my "Fifty Shades, bah I can do better"- Mechanics Lovestory, he's worried about her reaction to him being a masochist in a happy poly-family. But she chases him and they use words to solve their problems ;-) Yes, Spellcheck is great, I love word for this. And I like the cloud, makes sharing stuff with my alpha-reader easier. xebi Family Guy? No, there really isn't, is there? I've got a supernatural one in a later book, but he's not really too secretive about what he is, at least as far as his friends are concerned. Crazy enough, he's a hybrid, too! A lot of my characters are in their late teens, so they're a bit more dramatic than older people would be, but after they cool off, they talk things out and apologize. A good spell-check feature is something I'm missing in Scrivener, but thankfully I can get close enough with some words that it usually knows what I'm trying to say. If not, I just have to paste it into my search engine, that usually solves the problem. XD
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Post by DraconRa on Aug 6, 2016 13:02:17 GMT
No, there really isn't, is there? I've got a supernatural one in a later book, but he's not really too secretive about what he is, at least as far as his friends are concerned. Crazy enough, he's a hybrid, too! A lot of my characters are in their late teens, so they're a bit more dramatic than older people would be, but after they cool off, they talk things out and apologize. A good spell-check feature is something I'm missing in Scrivener, but thankfully I can get close enough with some words that it usually knows what I'm trying to say. If not, I just have to paste it into my search engine, that usually solves the problem. XD Well, his main problem is, when someone fell in love with him, believing he's human,they might not react to good when they find out he's actually an 8.3 foot giant, with black scales, a dragons head and feathered wings. Some are repulsed, most are scared, many angry, and way to many don't want anything do to with him anymore. The fact that the Dragons refer to him as "their living weapon", doesn't help. (modern Dragons don't get their hands dirty, they call in the old, immortal family who is still more predatory) So in my story, his plan was to help getting the spaceship ready to fly and protect the crew from scavengers. After the ship reached it's destination, he would claim that his human self died on the flight and re-introduce himself as his true self. But, stories depend on plans not working, don't they? ;-) Oh, I do that too, for spellcheck or when I'm to lazy to get the dictionary to check if I got the right word. English is hard... ;-)
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Post by muskratthemink on Aug 6, 2016 14:48:27 GMT
No, there really isn't, is there? I've got a supernatural one in a later book, but he's not really too secretive about what he is, at least as far as his friends are concerned. Crazy enough, he's a hybrid, too! A lot of my characters are in their late teens, so they're a bit more dramatic than older people would be, but after they cool off, they talk things out and apologize. A good spell-check feature is something I'm missing in Scrivener, but thankfully I can get close enough with some words that it usually knows what I'm trying to say. If not, I just have to paste it into my search engine, that usually solves the problem. XD Well, his main problem is, when someone fell in love with him, believing he's human,they might not react to good when they find out he's actually an 8.3 foot giant, with black scales, a dragons head and feathered wings. Some are repulsed, most are scared, many angry, and way to many don't want anything do to with him anymore. The fact that the Dragons refer to him as "their living weapon", doesn't help. (modern Dragons don't get their hands dirty, they call in the old, immortal family who is still more predatory) So in my story, his plan was to help getting the spaceship ready to fly and protect the crew from scavengers. After the ship reached it's destination, he would claim that his human self died on the flight and re-introduce himself as his true self. But, stories depend on plans not working, don't they? ;-) Oh, I do that too, for spellcheck or when I'm to lazy to get the dictionary to check if I got the right word. English is hard... ;-) Dragons and spaceships? Now there's something awesome! But hiding something that big, it doesn't surprise me so many people would be upset with him once they found out. That is certainly true, that's also what makes them fun! The only dictionaries I use are online ones. Even when I was little I hated the paper ones.
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Post by DraconRa on Aug 6, 2016 15:04:47 GMT
Well, his main problem is, when someone fell in love with him, believing he's human,they might not react to good when they find out he's actually an 8.3 foot giant, with black scales, a dragons head and feathered wings. Some are repulsed, most are scared, many angry, and way to many don't want anything do to with him anymore. The fact that the Dragons refer to him as "their living weapon", doesn't help. (modern Dragons don't get their hands dirty, they call in the old, immortal family who is still more predatory) So in my story, his plan was to help getting the spaceship ready to fly and protect the crew from scavengers. After the ship reached it's destination, he would claim that his human self died on the flight and re-introduce himself as his true self. But, stories depend on plans not working, don't they? ;-) Oh, I do that too, for spellcheck or when I'm to lazy to get the dictionary to check if I got the right word. English is hard... ;-) Dragons and spaceships? Now there's something awesome! But hiding something that big, it doesn't surprise me so many people would be upset with him once they found out. That is certainly true, that's also what makes them fun! The only dictionaries I use are online ones. Even when I was little I hated the paper ones. Yes, Dragons and spaceships My Dragons are Aliens, so after Yellow Stone erupts, sorry to my American friends, you're fucked, and Earth won't be able to sustain so many of us for a long time, a few Dragons decide to save as many as they can, by repairing an old spaceship and flying them to their home quadrant. The ship doesn't quite make it and they get rescued by a living spaceship, who was raised by the Dragon Hybrid, and brings them to an alien space station, the Dragons have friends there. And that's where the fun starts ;-)
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Post by muskratthemink on Aug 7, 2016 5:05:52 GMT
That's just where it starts? What else happens?
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Post by DraconRa on Aug 7, 2016 11:20:36 GMT
That's just where it starts? What else happens? Group of humans on an alien space station, trying to fit in and find a place for all the refugees in stasis, that are still on board. Plus the romance between the captain and the Dragon hybrid ;-) Few years ago I've written a horrible first draft, now, after some practice, I started again. We'll see how that goes. I've posted my "Sleeping Dragon" short story on the forums, it's basically a prequel, 300 years earlier, the Hybrid is the sleeping dragon. It explains a lot of my dragon lore. Oh and I forgot to commend this: My stories take place in our world, were Dragons are supposed to be a myth and the Dragons prefer it that way. So in human form, there is no good time to say "Hey, I'm some sort of mystical creature!" And on worlds were Dragons are known, everyone knows stories about the Black Dragon Quirran. Mostly horror stories, about how many people he has killed and how cruel he's supposed to be. So, again, he prefers not to tell anyone who he really is.
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Post by muskratthemink on Aug 7, 2016 14:08:37 GMT
I don't blame him for that one.
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